The Political Asylum

crazy greek · Moderator Joined: 05 Nov 2006 Posts: 77

Is an Iranian film about Jesus Christ as recounted in the Quran.

The Islamic view of Jesus:

BlueEmperor · Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:45 am Post subject:

Just on a related subject, some time last year I remember reading that a Dutch Roman Catholic bishop - Tiny Muskens, Bishop of Breda - said that we should all refer to God as 'Allah' to "ease tensions". It caused quite a stir in the Netherlands and, naturally, Bishop Muskens' suggestion was received with scorn and ridicule but there is precedent. The Bishop lived for many years in Indonesia, where the Christian inhabitants habitually refer to God as 'Allah'.

B.E.
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Mpls Druid · Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:11 pm Post subject:

I see that as no big deal. God has many names to begin with, and to exclude one because it "belongs" in the lexicon of a different faith is just nonsense. But because we vilify the Muslim religion as a whole based on the actions of a group of extremists, that name must only be associated with Muslims. pah!

Merak · Inmate of the Asylum Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Posts: 214

Not sure who this "we" are that you're talking about, but I vilify Islam, and not for the extremist nutter element of it that you might think. Even more dangerous are the sympathisers - ye know, the ones who say it's ok for them not to handle acoholic drink whilst working in sainsbury's when there's sod all in there good book saying that they can't? Or the ones who think they can turn up to meetings, courts, work whatever, looking like a black pillar box and the rest of us have just got to like it? I don't think so. Islam is all over the place in terms what it's supposed to be about and I'd happily see it abolished. This is Britain, not Saudi Arabia - fit in, or fuck off. That doesn't mean you personally mpls druid, just those who seek to live here and turn it into wherever they came from.

adrien · Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:51 pm Post subject:

Well, Merak, I'd say these muslims are extremists or fundamentalists. Most muslims won't see a problem in handling alcoholic drinks. The quran insists that what is done under constraint is not a sin, anyway: what is important is not so much the letter than the spirit of the law. If you work in a shop that sells alcohol, of course you have to handle it.
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Merak · Inmate of the Asylum Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Posts: 214

yes, you're right. But why are non muslims entertaining it? I'm of the opinion that anybody can be of whatever religion that they choose to be, and that whatever religion that is should be a personal thing and it is up to them to reconcile their belief with mainstream society and not for mainstream society to ahere just because of somebody else's religious beliefs. I don't believe in Allah and everybody else who doesn't shouldn't be expected to aid and abet those who do. Cool

Vintage Girl · Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:04 pm Post subject:

I wouldn't say that Islam should be abolished!

Everyone should be free to worship, or not, as they choose and members of all faiths should be free to live in this country. However, I see no reason why this nations lifestyle and traditions should be compromised by those other faiths.

If they have a problem with the way we live, then don't come and live here. Choose a country that is predominantly of their faith.
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Merak · Inmate of the Asylum Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Posts: 214

BlueEmperor · Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:53 pm Post subject:

I don't think we can abolish Islam and I don't think it's even necessary. What we need to abolish is the spectre of 'Political Correctness'.

B.E.
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leutnant · Joined: 25 Mar 2008 Posts: 24

Why the fuss? The Godhead is Shiva anyway Laughing

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Merak · Inmate of the Asylum Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Posts: 214

BlueEmperor · Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:09 pm Post subject:

I think it is reasonable, in a multi-faith society such as ours, to make reasonable accommodations for people of different religious viewpoints. That does not mean, however, that we should pander to Islam as has been the case of late nor should we try to pretend that this country was not founded on Judeo-Christian moral principles and is, for all intents and purposes, historically and culturally a Christian country existing as a modern secular state, albeit one with an established Christian church. The key thing about living in a modern secular democracy is freedom of speech and of religious expression. This means that people are free to practice their religion openly and that, contrarywise, secular agnostics and atheists are free to openly critique such religious practices.

This is where the problem with Islam lies. We saw it perfectly illustrated during the protests over the Danish newspaper cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed. Moslems seem to regard themselves as some kind of special case, to which the normal rules of free speech do not apply. They see it as justifiable to incite murder in cases where their religion has been "mocked". They have the freedom of speech to make anti-Semitics, anti-British, anti-democracy speeches and diatribes against Britain, the West, America and anything else that disagrees with their mediaeval world view. But others do not have the freedom to write a book gently ridiculing their religion. They think they can dictate who the Queen grants knighthoods to - it being acceptable to knight the bigoted holocaust denier Sir Iqbal Sacranie but not the novelist Sir Salman Rushdie.

Moslems are welcome to live here and to become part of British society but it has to be on our terms and they need to embrace this country and its traditions, not seem to lay them aside in deference to their own cultural heritage. If they love their own culture so much, let them go back to Saudi Arabi, Iran or Pakistan or wherever.

B.E.
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Vintage Girl · Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:14 pm Post subject:

Abso-bloody-lutely.

What he said.
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Girls are like phones. We love to be held and talked to, but if you press the wrong button you'll be disconnected!

cherrybabe · Inmate of the Asylum Joined: 26 Jan 2007 Posts: 345

I agree, remember this incident there was very little tolerance on the part of the Islamic faith there.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=496792&in_page_id=1811
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Merak · Inmate of the Asylum Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Posts: 214

BlueEmperor · Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:49 pm Post subject:

cherrybabe · Inmate of the Asylum Joined: 26 Jan 2007 Posts: 345

I was not speaking of this country i was speaking of in the Sudan, it is a classic example do as i say and not as i do. As you pointed out Blue most of the securing of Gillian Gibbons release came from muslims in this country. My point is in this country we are expected to make way for other religions and show a certain tolerance, yet in other countries they don't show us the same courtesy at least not without intervention.
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I hear the ancient footsteps like the motion of the sea
Sometimes I turn, there's someone there, other times it's only me.

Mpls Druid · Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:45 pm Post subject:

you hit the nail on the head, CB

adrien · Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:44 pm Post subject:

Merak · Inmate of the Asylum Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Posts: 214

You're absolutely right that Christianity, amongst other faiths, have far from a model track record through the ages, but what went on in the past from other faiths doesn't offset what is going on now with regards to Islam. Whatever way you look at it, Islam is an extremely volatile faith that is all over the place and at the drop of a hat will have rioting in the middle east and Islamophobic demonstrations going on in Europe when really, they shouldn't be batting an eyelid. It's them cartoons I've got in mind when I say that, but bear in mind that those cartoons were published first in Egypt and no mayhem ensued. Wasn't til they were published in Denmark that all hell broke loose. Doesn't that that say anything to you?

And then of course there was pope benedict the umpteenth's comment. More mayhem. Islam is a child whose dummy will come out whenever it sees or hears something it doesn't like. For that reason, my own definition of Islamaphobia is an irrational fear of upsetting muslims. Because that's what's it's like with all the dumbing down that goes on so as not to offend muslims, even when muslims haven't even complained.

Islam is far too riddled with fundamentalists for those who do actually want to just reconcile their faith with they UK, or western world - many of whom want to be here to do just that. But they can't, cause there's such a tight grip from fundamentalist/extremists on it. Not that long ago we had immans asking for recongnised public holidays for Islamic stuff as a means of deterring young muslims becoming extremist. What? That's the sort of thing that just shouldn't be - and thankfully wasn't - entertained. Amounts to blackmail.

Islam is far from tolerant. So long as its riddled with fundamentalists in the West and hard core in the middle east, it's fucked.

BlueEmperor · Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:50 pm Post subject:

Oh, what irony! I just had a conversation with Mum on the way home in the car in which I employed these exact same arguments.

I actually don't ascribe much of this intolerance to Islam itself. The Islamic community has, to an extent, come to expect that they and their beliefs should be sheltered from scrutiny because of the way the 'multicultural' left has constantly capitulated in deference to their various perceived concerns - things like shops not putting up explicitly 'Christian' Christmas decorations for fear of "offending Moslems". I definately agree that there is little practical difference between extremist Islam and fundamentalist Christianity. The only point one has to conceed is that there are definately more extremist Moslems than there are extremist Christians. And I absolutely despise His Dark Materials. His writings deeply offend the Christian faith. But you don't see me and my fellow co-religionists marching down the streets of London holding plackards calling for Philip Pullman to be put to death! I think you are misguided in that respect, by suggesting that those kinds of protests only came from backwards Moslems living in Arab countries. Those protests were seen across the capitals of Europe.

Geert Wilders is a deeply objectionable little shite, I agree with you there.