The Political Asylum

diamond lil · Inmate of the Asylum Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 825

it's intensely personal, that's the problem....does anyone here believe in reincarnation?
_________________
In Manchester, did Tony Blair
A state owned pleasure dome decree

Oh gentle geezer, Oh blood. 'Tis not for you to hear what I speak. Dunfor has OD'd.
theonlylil@yahoo.co.uk

AngryLiberal · Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:41 pm Post subject:

In a way yes, I do... I believe in physical reincarnation, but not spiritual reincarnation.

You die, you decompose, soils gains additional nutrients, which in turn feeds plants, which in turn feed insects, which in turn feed birds & small mammals which in turn feed larger mammals. The whole circle of life thing.

I find its quite uplifting to see your place in nature as part of it, rather than above it.
_________________
David
This post is dedicated to those who lost their lives in the Star Wars films: Darth Vader, Darth Maul, Padme, Obi Wan, Yoda, Stormtrooper #5, Qui Gon, Dak, Biggs, Stormtrooper #22, Palpatine. Everyone on the Death Stars and sadly not Jar Jar Binks.

JuanaLaLoca · Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:52 pm Post subject:

I believe in reincarnation.

diamond lil · Inmate of the Asylum Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 825

there's definitely some evidence for it, as well as evidence of out of body experiences...and of course there's the Mozart thing.
_________________
In Manchester, did Tony Blair
A state owned pleasure dome decree

Oh gentle geezer, Oh blood. 'Tis not for you to hear what I speak. Dunfor has OD'd.
theonlylil@yahoo.co.uk

wakeyboy · Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:24 pm Post subject:

I won't denounce the possibilility of reincarnation, I accept that it could be possible but I choose to put my faith in the ressurection. I belief in an afterlife or existence apart from the corporeal world.

I do not necessarily believe in any conventional notion of heaven, hell or purgatory, I just believe that the soul exists in some other realm.
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http://www.realradioyorkshire.co.uk/

Goodbrit · Inmate of the Asylum Joined: 05 Nov 2006 Posts: 859

redlunar · Inmate of the Asylum Joined: 06 Nov 2006 Posts: 244

Well, I have always had the idea that when you die, you fall into a deep sleep. Reincarnation therefore does not occur. And even if it did, I'd still believe that it's controlled by God.

Logically I don't see it in any other way. (No David, don't try and ask me to explain it to you.) Smile

P.S. thanks for the book - will read through it.

Btw, have you read through that website? Would be unfair to expect me to read the book and you don't bother to do the same hey...

Michele · Guest

that's more true to what the Bible teaches, redlunar, that you go into a deep sleep and are only awakened when the world is at its end. it always amazes me how many people say that someone's in heaven the moment they die, watching over them.

wakeyboy · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:08 am Post subject:

BlueEmperor · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:42 am Post subject:

I do not believe in reincarnation, which is fundamentally at odds with the teachings of my own religious faith. To believe in reincarnation is to buy into the idea that human beings are using these various 'lifetimes' to work towards 'enlightenment' and 'salvation'. But, fundamentally, Christians believe that mankind can never achieve the level of perfection required by God, which is why He sent his only Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, to sacrifice Himself and take away the sins of mankind.

B.E.

cherrybabe · Inmate of the Asylum Joined: 26 Jan 2007 Posts: 345

Right who is first in the queue to be regressed?

My name is Melinda Tentrees Razz

. No seriously though, i find reincarnation fascinating i mean when people are regressed and do a factual trace they often find things tallying like they never expected.
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I hear the ancient footsteps like the motion of the sea
Sometimes I turn, there's someone there, other times it's only me.

AngryLiberal · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:36 am Post subject:

diamond lil · Inmate of the Asylum Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 825

me.
_________________
In Manchester, did Tony Blair
A state owned pleasure dome decree

Oh gentle geezer, Oh blood. 'Tis not for you to hear what I speak. Dunfor has OD'd.
theonlylil@yahoo.co.uk

adrien · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:04 pm Post subject:

Quite like A.L.. I'm certainly a materialist on this issue: no soul, so no afterlife whatever. I don't even find it "uplifting" to be a part of nature - what else?

Now, I'm not going to pretend that anything is absolutely impossible, but as far as I'm concerned, either reincarnation or resurection do not seem very likely.

But lil, you mentionned evidences, and a "Mozart thing". Could you be more explicit?
_________________
Sit on the banks of the river and wait for the corpse of your enemy. - Indian proverb.

diamond lil · Inmate of the Asylum Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 825

sure..Mozart is often cited when reincarnation is being discussed because he was a famous child prodigy...basically what he was doing at 4 years old was impossible...getting out of bed in the night and writing symphonies etc. How could that happen? He was certainly born into a musical family, which gave his genius full reign , but even so. Some people believe he brought his musical knowledge with him from a previous life....that most of us don't bring any memories or gifts we may have developed, but that sometimes it happens.
There are countless stories of people remembering past lives...one particularly outstanding account is of a woman remembering she was the mother of an Irish family....I'll see if I can find some links.
_________________
In Manchester, did Tony Blair
A state owned pleasure dome decree

Oh gentle geezer, Oh blood. 'Tis not for you to hear what I speak. Dunfor has OD'd.
theonlylil@yahoo.co.uk

JuanaLaLoca · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:49 pm Post subject:

I believe that a number of things can happen to a soul after death, including straight reincarnation where it is reborn into another person, becoming an alter in a person with MPD, or becoming someone's 'guardian angel' or spiritual guide. Souls go on forever and are 'recyclable'. I also believe that this is directed by God.

JuanaLaLoca · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:53 pm Post subject:

adrien · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:33 pm Post subject:

Well, people sometime remember things that never happened, or in this case mistake memories from their childhood for memories of another life.

Ever heard about "false memories?" Scary thing...

As for Mozart... Well, this is a little bit too far fetched for me.
_________________
Sit on the banks of the river and wait for the corpse of your enemy. - Indian proverb.

diamond lil · Inmate of the Asylum Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 825

well, in some cases people were remembering things that did happen before they were born. A little boy told his mother all about his other mummy and his life on an island. How he used to watch planes land on the beach, he described the house he lived in. He said he suddenly fell through a hole into his new mummy.
_________________
In Manchester, did Tony Blair
A state owned pleasure dome decree

Oh gentle geezer, Oh blood. 'Tis not for you to hear what I speak. Dunfor has OD'd.
theonlylil@yahoo.co.uk

adrien · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:12 pm Post subject:

diamond lil · Inmate of the Asylum Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 825

because they found the island and found his house. It took some time to find the house he described, but eventually the surname he gave was found in some old records and sure enough the house was almost exactly as he described. He went very, very quiet and clung onto his mother as they went inside...he got very upset because he missed his old family, especially his old mother. He gave loads of details..the fact his father had a motorbike, the names of the dogs they owned. At the end of the programme, we were told the boy was talking about it less and less...which generally always happens. The memories are lost as children grow older...it was fascinating stuff.
_________________
In Manchester, did Tony Blair
A state owned pleasure dome decree

Oh gentle geezer, Oh blood. 'Tis not for you to hear what I speak. Dunfor has OD'd.
theonlylil@yahoo.co.uk

BlueEmperor · Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:23 pm Post subject:

diamond lil · Inmate of the Asylum Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 825

adrien · Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:59 pm Post subject:

diamond lil · Inmate of the Asylum Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 825

http://www.five.tv/programmes/extraordinarypeople/boywholived/

a link to the programme.
_________________
In Manchester, did Tony Blair
A state owned pleasure dome decree

Oh gentle geezer, Oh blood. 'Tis not for you to hear what I speak. Dunfor has OD'd.
theonlylil@yahoo.co.uk

adrien · Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:23 pm Post subject:

O.K., thanks, I'll have a look at that.
_________________
Sit on the banks of the river and wait for the corpse of your enemy. - Indian proverb.

adrien · Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:51 am Post subject:

Well, an extraordinary story, but not that compelling in my opinion. I'm with the psychologists here. The simple possibility that the boy heard about Barra on TV for example seems much more probable than reincarnation - trying to check the story, I came accross this article on the Barra airport: the boy may well have seen something on TV about it during the 2003 protests, and such an airport does strike the imagination.

I also wonder about the boy's father. Seems the mother is single, maybe the father had a connection with Barra?

What's more, tough they did found a Robertson family (but Robertson sounds like a very common name, isn''t it), no trace of a "Shane Robertson", who the boy claims was his "past life" father.

Reading the article reminded me of my little brother, who used to talk about "when he was older". Cameron story may be more convincing, but that doesn't make it less of a kid's fantasy in my opinion.
_________________
Sit on the banks of the river and wait for the corpse of your enemy. - Indian proverb.

diamond lil · Inmate of the Asylum Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 825

There was more to it than that...all those things you talked about were looked into at the time. Every possible explanation was looked into...but nobody could explain the details.
_________________
In Manchester, did Tony Blair
A state owned pleasure dome decree

Oh gentle geezer, Oh blood. 'Tis not for you to hear what I speak. Dunfor has OD'd.
theonlylil@yahoo.co.uk

Goodbrit · Inmate of the Asylum Joined: 05 Nov 2006 Posts: 859

I do get confused by Christians saying they believe in reincarnation-the whole point of christianity is the redemption of thew soul-the only one we get, through faith in Christ. That redemption entitles ppl to eternal life in eternal bliss........if reincarnation were a part of it, then the whole point of faith would seem rather trivial....ie, by believing you come back as a lion rather than a frog if you believe in God/Christ etc!
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Manchester, when death isnt enougth

diamond lil · Inmate of the Asylum Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 825

I don't believe we come back as anything other than a human soul, just that it takes more than one life to gain redemption.
_________________
In Manchester, did Tony Blair
A state owned pleasure dome decree

Oh gentle geezer, Oh blood. 'Tis not for you to hear what I speak. Dunfor has OD'd.
theonlylil@yahoo.co.uk

AngryLiberal · Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:49 pm Post subject:

diamond lil · Inmate of the Asylum Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 825

I'm not talking about especially brainy children. I'm talking about the impossibility of writing a sonata at the age of 4, without being taught how to write music. If you accept the possibility that Mozart brought that knowledge with him from his previous existenece, it becomes reasonable and understandable. I believe Mozart's sister was also a gifted musician, which as you say is unremarkable considering the family.
_________________
In Manchester, did Tony Blair
A state owned pleasure dome decree

Oh gentle geezer, Oh blood. 'Tis not for you to hear what I speak. Dunfor has OD'd.
theonlylil@yahoo.co.uk

AngryLiberal · Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:19 pm Post subject:

diamond lil · Inmate of the Asylum Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 825

my father could play the piano by ear..but what you're missing is, he like the others taught himself to play over a period of time. He didn't just sit down and make beautiful music at the age of three. Musical ability can be explained by genetics, but nobody's born being able to play an instrument or write music...or if they are, then what's the explanation? To me ( and millions of others) it's simple..he brought it with him.
_________________
In Manchester, did Tony Blair
A state owned pleasure dome decree

Oh gentle geezer, Oh blood. 'Tis not for you to hear what I speak. Dunfor has OD'd.
theonlylil@yahoo.co.uk

diamond lil · Inmate of the Asylum Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 825

the woman I was thinking of was Jenny Cockell. She could remember she used to be an Irish mother of eight named Mary Sutton who died 21 years before she herself was born. After Mary died, the children became orphans and the family was spilit up. Jenny wrote a book on her compulsion to find 'her' children..which she did. It's called 'Yesterday's Children'.
_________________
In Manchester, did Tony Blair
A state owned pleasure dome decree

Oh gentle geezer, Oh blood. 'Tis not for you to hear what I speak. Dunfor has OD'd.
theonlylil@yahoo.co.uk

diamond lil · Inmate of the Asylum Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 825

I found this link

http://www.grail-uk.net/index.php?page=1739
_________________
In Manchester, did Tony Blair
A state owned pleasure dome decree

Oh gentle geezer, Oh blood. 'Tis not for you to hear what I speak. Dunfor has OD'd.
theonlylil@yahoo.co.uk

AngryLiberal · Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:45 pm Post subject:

adrien · Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:02 pm Post subject:

AngryLiberal · Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:10 pm Post subject:

diamond lil · Inmate of the Asylum Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 825

very interesting, but it doesn't explain how she not only found the family but knew stuff she couldn't possibly have known...that article didn't mention that. I know Mozart's father was a teacher, he also taught Mozart's sister...and if Mozart was doing the things he could do at 7 or 8 it would be remarkable, but not incredible...at the age of 3 or 4 it is incredible.
_________________
In Manchester, did Tony Blair
A state owned pleasure dome decree

Oh gentle geezer, Oh blood. 'Tis not for you to hear what I speak. Dunfor has OD'd.
theonlylil@yahoo.co.uk

AngryLiberal · Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:58 pm Post subject:

diamond lil · Inmate of the Asylum Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 825

he was 4, I think... or 3.
_________________
In Manchester, did Tony Blair
A state owned pleasure dome decree

Oh gentle geezer, Oh blood. 'Tis not for you to hear what I speak. Dunfor has OD'd.
theonlylil@yahoo.co.uk

AngryLiberal · Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:30 pm Post subject:

diamond lil · Inmate of the Asylum Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 825

...or so believed. That's in brackets.
_________________
In Manchester, did Tony Blair
A state owned pleasure dome decree

Oh gentle geezer, Oh blood. 'Tis not for you to hear what I speak. Dunfor has OD'd.
theonlylil@yahoo.co.uk

AngryLiberal · Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:31 pm Post subject:

So believed because there are no known earlier works, none have ever come to light in 250 years!

Look at the way you are arguing. In your last two/three posts. You have been forced to use arguments of omission: Namely: I might be right because there is a chance there is something no scholar has found yet which might turn out to make me right!

In other words what you are saying is: "There is no evidence to support what I'm saying, but I'm gonna stick to my guns anyway... screw you guys!" Or if you prefer: "I'm full of shit but too proud to admit it!"
_________________
David
This post is dedicated to those who lost their lives in the Star Wars films: Darth Vader, Darth Maul, Padme, Obi Wan, Yoda, Stormtrooper #5, Qui Gon, Dak, Biggs, Stormtrooper #22, Palpatine. Everyone on the Death Stars and sadly not Jar Jar Binks.

diamond lil · Inmate of the Asylum Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 825

Certainly not...all I meant was that the link you provided was from wikipaedia, which is OK up to a point, but I found it sadly lacking when I was looking up something regarding Charles II, so it follows it's far from perfect...I have to do some looking up of my own...I'm pretty sure I read somewhere Mozart used to get up in the night to write music when he was about 3 years old...maybe he thought it wasn't quite good enough to go into print. I do know he went with his father to see a symphony when he was very young then came home and wrote it all out, making one small mistake. He was amazing, what he did was amazing. I believe he brought that knowledge with him.
I also found Jenny Cockell's story amazing, but that's because I'd read what her 'children' had to say.
_________________
In Manchester, did Tony Blair
A state owned pleasure dome decree

Oh gentle geezer, Oh blood. 'Tis not for you to hear what I speak. Dunfor has OD'd.
theonlylil@yahoo.co.uk

adrien · Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:05 pm Post subject:

AngryLiberal · Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:48 pm Post subject:

exactamundo!
_________________
David
This post is dedicated to those who lost their lives in the Star Wars films: Darth Vader, Darth Maul, Padme, Obi Wan, Yoda, Stormtrooper #5, Qui Gon, Dak, Biggs, Stormtrooper #22, Palpatine. Everyone on the Death Stars and sadly not Jar Jar Binks.

diamond lil · Inmate of the Asylum Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 825

Not at all. This category is supposed to be for discussions on spiritual and religious matters; why we think the way do and how we arrived at the point we're at. It's not about facts and figures, but about experiences and thought processes.
It isn't working out, which is why very few members are taking part.
_________________
In Manchester, did Tony Blair
A state owned pleasure dome decree

Oh gentle geezer, Oh blood. 'Tis not for you to hear what I speak. Dunfor has OD'd.
theonlylil@yahoo.co.uk

adrien · Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:11 pm Post subject: