The Political Asylum

Vintage Girl · Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:54 pm Post subject: Welfare Reforms

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/oct/27/brown-increased-welfare-reform

muppetmurderer · Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:53 am Post subject:

I did always think it was a bit daft (or is this just 'DailyMail-itis') that someone with a dodgy shoulder, for example, could declare themselves unwell enough to be a shepherd, and therefore not work at all, instead of being asked to consider working as an admin clerk or something less physically demanding - so getting people off the long term incapacity benefit.... Still, I imagine this is actually what does happen, but not many people would know!
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Merak · Inmate of the Asylum Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Posts: 214

There must be very few people who really are incapacitated and genuinely can't work. I suppose this is a step in the right direction, but why it can't apply across the board instead of just to new claimants is just a joke.

wakeyboy · Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:47 pm Post subject:

I knew someone with respiratory problems - problems if they ran or did lots of walking but were perfectly fine if they only did a bit of walking, and seemed to function ok when working illegally (cash-in-hand) at a local bar!
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Merak · Inmate of the Asylum Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Posts: 214

have met a few folk over the years on who have been able to do quite a few things too but been quite happy on their benefits. IB, free rent, mobility cars and whatnot. There's one in particular I used to know who had more disposable income than me after taking into account all my outgoings for working F/T and all his benefits - inc free rent etc.

Anything that attempts to get folk off benefits and fending for themselves is good in my opinion. VG might set me right on this as I don't know if it's still the case, but something that pisses me off with benefits applications is one word: "Entitled". Entitled to this, entitled to that. Actually, No! Nobody is "entitled" to benefits, benefits are a saftey net, not an entitlement, or that's how it should be anyway. If you're on benefits then you're a charity case and should be grateful that everybody else out working is funding the benefits. Really pisses me off that the benefits blurb tells people they're 'entitled' to this or that benefit. Sends out the wrong message entirely.

Vintage Girl · Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:35 pm Post subject:

Depends which way you look at it really.

Where someone has been paying National Insurance and then makes a claim to benefit based on that then I think it is fair to say they have an 'entitlement'. It's really no different to any other insurance policy on which you are entitled to make a claim.

Where I take exception is where people who have 'never' paid National Insurance make a claim to benefit and their claim is then determined according to need. This in my view is not an entitlement but an award. In the end though you're arguing about semantics. The rules under which these payments are made are the same regardless of what they are called and need to be examined and changed.

My problem is the attitude that many people on benefit seem to have. They believe they are entitled to the same lifestyle as someone who is working and they don't.
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wakeyboy · Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:18 am Post subject:

Someone who is in genuine need of benefits should be receiving enough to survive and to look after their dependents. They're not entitled to the same lifestyle as others (as VG says).

I remember a burglar ringing a radio show and saying that burglary wasnt that bad because its not fair that other people have more stuff! Mad

Its not fair that some people have to go to work and EARN the money that pays for their belongings only to have someone who has done nothing take it away! - Not that theft is anything to do with the benefits system, but its part of this culture of laziness and immediate gratification.
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muppetmurderer · Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:24 pm Post subject:

Surely all property is theft?

While it may seem a bit unfair that the disadvantaged (whether through upbringing, education, mental or physical weaknesses or simple bad luck) should aspire to live well and take up whatever benefits might be offered to them, it does often have the effect of making society better for everyone else, as the option would probably be crime or prostitution or both.

You could be (and I hope are) equally critical of those few extremely wealthy people who have more money and income than is needed, simply through being wealthy already... it may be an urban myth, but I recall reading that 5% of the population has 90% of the wealth in this country. Were there a more reasonable distribution, then I suspect the Benefits system would be less stressed (as would VG Very Happy

)and this discussion would be
academic.
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Do you know what it means when you come home to a little affection, a little tenderness, and a little sympathy? It means you're in the wrong house

Merak · Inmate of the Asylum Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Posts: 214